ATI Linux Chat @ Rage3D

nov 11 21:58:50 <[R3D]dementor> Alright guys,we're here with Terry Makedon (Senior Product Manager of Software),
nov 11 21:58:50 <[R3D]dementor> Jon Carvill (Mobile, Integrated and Catalyst PR Manager) and
nov 11 21:58:50 <[R3D]dementor> Matthew Tippett (Linux Software Manager). Today we will be asking questions regarding ATi Linux support by ATi.
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nov 11 21:59:56 <[R3D]ben6> hi terry and matthew and Jon! :)
nov 11 21:59:56 <[R3D]Ratchet> ATI_Linux_Guys is Jon and Terry
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nov 11 21:59:57 <[R3D]dementor> Don't forget to ask questions in #ATILinuxQ so that ATi may have the oppurtunity to answer it. We'll be posting questions based on their importance to the topic at hand (LINUX).
nov 11 21:59:57 <[R3D]Ratchet> mtippett is Matt, of course :)
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nov 11 22:01:23 <ATI_Linux_Guys> Hi everyone
nov 11 22:01:26 <ATI_Linux_Guys> ATI is here
nov 11 22:01:29 * mtippett waves to the gallery
nov 11 22:01:35 <ATI_Linux_Guys> welcome to the 4th Rage3D chat
nov 11 22:01:43 <ATI_Linux_Guys> topic is Linux
nov 11 22:01:44 <[R3D]ben6> 5th terry
nov 11 22:01:47 <[R3D]MrB> 4:02PM EST....we'll start the questions now....we have a bunch of questions already logged by Ratchet that he deemed relevant.
nov 11 22:01:53 <ATI_Linux_Guys> ok Ben I stand corrected
nov 11 22:02:00 <ATI_Linux_Guys> 5th Rage3D exlusive chat
nov 11 22:02:09 <[R3D]Ratchet> ok, 1st question coming up
nov 11 22:02:18 <[R3D]Ratchet> <HWolf> Question: Anandtech recently did a comparison of linux performance between ATI and Nvidia cards. They reported they needed several kernel-recompiles, a lot of tweaking, and general problems. They ended up with inferior performance for ATI products at all fronts, aswell as being unable to run many of the benchmarks, what is ATI's responce to that?
nov 11 22:02:22 <ATI_Linux_Guys> we will type stop when the answer is done
nov 11 22:02:28 <[R3D]Ratchet> rgr
nov 11 22:03:43 <ATI_Linux_Guys> Matthew is typing a response
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nov 11 22:03:54 <[R3D]MrB> jeopardy music in the backgroun.....
nov 11 22:04:00 <ATI_Linux_Guys> by the way Matthew is ATI's Project Team Lead for Linux
nov 11 22:04:21 <ATI_Linux_Guys> we also have Terry and Jon (CATALYST marketing and PR respectively)
nov 11 22:05:05 <[R3D]MrB> So Joh and Terry what do you guys think of SLI
nov 11 22:05:11 <[R3D]MrB> Jon
nov 11 22:05:39 <ATI_Linux_Guys> The Linux version of it you mean? ;-)
nov 11 22:06:10 <[R3D]MrB> we'll I think we need filler well Matt defends his linux drivers .... SLI is a hot topic
nov 11 22:06:10 <mtippett> Our current focus is on stability and features. We are getting incremental performance increases as they become available. So it was no surprise about the performance in the review. Our drivers are primarily targetted at Red Hat, and we work with SuSE to repackage our drivers, and so AnandTech got off to the wrong start by not using those. Once the SuSE packages where used, the issues about tweaking and general problems were not present.
nov 11 22:06:49 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:07:00 <[R3D]Ratchet> <skirst> QUESTION: GLSL has been in the Windows CATALYST OpenGL for about a year now, while it is currently abscent in the Linux OpenGL implementation. This suggests to me that the two do not share the same codebase. Are there plans to take a more unified approach so that developers can gain access to new OpenGL improvements and extensions at roughly the same time for either platform?
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nov 11 22:08:30 <mtippett> Since 3.9, the code has been tracking the windows codebase for each release. In upcoming releases we will match the Windows version number (December will be a 8.08 release).
nov 11 22:10:18 <mtippett> A feature disparity may in some cases (GLSL for example) may be absent since the code is not stabilised or there are technology restrictions for Linux. As we have opportunity we will bring features on par with windows.
nov 11 22:10:18 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:10:18 <[R3D]Ratchet> <oliver> QUESTION: Some voulenteers are starting to work on a nice GTK based control panel. Is there any way they(we) could get some detailed information or some api (the docs under NDA if wanted) to further work on that panel? Perferably via a direct channel and not the developer program on the ATi site that gets you no responce?
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nov 11 22:12:29 <mtippett> Since our control panel is currently QT, we have sources shipped. We are working through some licensing issues in accepting patches. We have accepted patches from various people since I made the comment 'that we hadn't received anything for the control panel'.
nov 11 22:13:04 <[r3d]ben6> QT?
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nov 11 22:14:14 <ATI_Linux_Guys> QT = underlying windowing library that KDE uses
nov 11 22:14:14 <mtippett> An idea that I am playing with (there are a few technical prerequisites before we can do this). Is that the control panel is developed in part by ATI and in part by the community - Rage3DTweaker is an example of some of the things that may be exposed.
nov 11 22:14:14 <ATI_Linux_Guys> sorry
nov 11 22:14:18 <[r3d]ben6> thanks terry :)
nov 11 22:16:32 <mtippett> There may be some ATI only extensions that will be included in the released ones in binary forms, but I have no fundamental problems with working with the user community to build up channel.
nov 11 22:16:32 <mtippett> On the QT vs GTK, currently we have some code in QT, and so GTK would be a reset in the control panel.
nov 11 22:16:34 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:16:34 <[R3D]Ratchet> <HWolf> Question: From your answers it looks to be a priority for ATI to get support done right on the 'business' linux platforms, especially since you at the moment only seem to focus on the RedHat/SuSe enviornments. What can the average enthouiast expect from ATI in the near future?
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nov 11 22:17:32 <ATI_Linux_Guys> while Matthew is typing the answer are there any other general CATALYST questions Jon and I can field in the meantime?
nov 11 22:17:48 <[R3D]MrB> Why does CCC take so much memory lol sorry
nov 11 22:18:10 <ATI_Linux_Guys> Because we had a memory leak problem that will be fixed in the next CATALYST posting
nov 11 22:18:11 <[R3D]Ratchet> hehe you asked for it
nov 11 22:18:28 <ATI_Linux_Guys> its fine I dont mind answering generic stuff till Matthew answers the real question
nov 11 22:18:46 <[r3d]ben6> terry when can we expect CCC support for integrated chipsets like RS480?
nov 11 22:19:10 <ATI_Linux_Guys> If you search the Rage3D or Driverheaven forums you will see I have answered that already
nov 11 22:19:24 <ATI_Linux_Guys> But since Jon is watching me now I cant really say
nov 11 22:19:40 <ATI_Linux_Guys> J*A*N* cough cough
nov 11 22:20:11 <[R3D]Ratchet> what cool new features are coming up in CCC that you can tell us about
nov 11 22:21:42 <[R3D]MrB> that was a typo for Jon Terry ??
nov 11 22:22:02 <[R3D]MrB> What is the number of developers working over linux drivers? (terry might know? )
nov 11 22:23:26 <ATI_Linux_Guys> I do know but for competitive reasons we dont give direct numbers
nov 11 22:23:47 <ATI_Linux_Guys> All I can say is its roughly proportional to the size of the Linux market.
nov 11 22:23:47 <[R3D]Ratchet> would they all fit in a breadbox?
nov 11 22:23:47 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:23:47 <[R3D]MrB> your answer didn't get through matt
nov 11 22:25:31 <[R3D]Ratchet> you may need to break it up if it's too long
nov 11 22:25:31 <mtippett> Our primary focus is commercial GL customers. Enthusiasts and gamers can expect high value fixes such as the doom3 fix as they are needed. Keep in mind that a lot of the commercial customers are focused on performance as well and that will be available immeadiately for the enthusiasts.
nov 11 22:25:31 <mtippett> A benefit of OpenGL as the 3D subsystem for Linux is that the Workstation development becomes available immediately for the enthusiast gamer. Under Windows, the work involves OpenGL for workstation, DirectX for Gamers (as a general rule - ignoring doom3).
nov 11 22:25:31 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:25:31 <mtippett> :)
nov 11 22:25:51 <[R3D]Ratchet> <idr> QUESTION: On the control pannel subject, the open-source drivers have a standard XML based interface for exposing tunable options. Will ATI support that interface in their drivers?
nov 11 22:25:51 <mtippett> As indicated before, there are some technical pre-requisites, one of these would be considering the DRI configuration infrastructure (which is XML).
nov 11 22:25:51 <mtippett> No promises that it will be that though.
nov 11 22:25:52 <mtippett> URL -> http://dri.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/ConfigurationInfrastructure
nov 11 22:27:14 <mtippett> We haven't finished our analysis on what is needed.
nov 11 22:27:14 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:27:35 <[R3D]Ratchet> <Kaloz> QUESTION: AMD64 users are generally forced to use cards from a competitor to have decent 3D support on 64-bit Linux systems. Are there any (at least) beta drivers for AMD64 Linux, and if so, are there plans on making them public as the Windows beta drivers?
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nov 11 22:27:57 <mtippett> We are planning our first release of AMD64 with the next release.
nov 11 22:27:57 <mtippett> stop
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nov 11 22:29:40 * mtippett twiddles his thumbs.
nov 11 22:30:01 <[R3D]Ratchet> hehe
nov 11 22:30:01 * mtippett explains /me to Terry
nov 11 22:30:01 * ATI_Linux_Guys laughs at Matthew
nov 11 22:30:02 * mtippett prods Ratchet...
nov 11 22:30:02 <[R3D]Ratchet> <HWolf> Question: Given ATI's business focus, The priority seems to be on 2d performance and functionality. Does ATI have any plans to support new desktop developments such as the X.org Composite extention?
nov 11 22:30:23 * ATI_Linux_Guys are proud to have discovered "me" functions
nov 11 22:30:23 <mtippett> The Chats with Terry will never be the same...
nov 11 22:31:46 <mtippett> Don't quite understand the 2D performance implication.... But anyway...
nov 11 22:32:07 <ATI_Linux_Guys> just a little side note while Matthew answers for our "other OS" users
nov 11 22:32:07 <ATI_Linux_Guys> we are working on the punkbuster issue and I expect a hot fix posted
nov 11 22:32:07 <ATI_Linux_Guys> today, tomorrow or Monday
nov 11 22:32:28 <mtippett> As the technology becomes deployed in the market, we will respond to what is needed. Currently there is minimal requirements for Composite and so on, until some fundamental architectural changes are made.
nov 11 22:32:28 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:32:28 <[R3D]Ratchet> <rinthos> QUESTION: Back in Mid-August, 2004, at http://freedesktop.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1085#c4 , Ati stated that they would be re-releasing driver 3.12 with X.org 6.8 support in a few weeks. What is the status on this re-release?
nov 11 22:32:49 * mtippett chuckles...
nov 11 22:32:49 <mtippett> I knew that would come up...
nov 11 22:34:12 * [R3D]Ratchet knew too
nov 11 22:34:33 * ATI_Linux_Guys didnt know
nov 11 22:34:33 * [r3d]ben6 doesn't know anything
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nov 11 22:34:54 <mtippett> That was a leak from beta program mailing list... It was 'planning' and not a definite statement. (I didn't say it, Stefan from SuSE did). We had other important things to work with that delayed that work.
nov 11 22:34:54 <mtippett> ATI did not state... Stefan did.
nov 11 22:34:54 <mtippett> Anyway, 6.8 is going to be in the next release.
nov 11 22:34:54 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:36:37 <[R3D]Ratchet> <adrianhensler> QUESTION: Is there any focus on implementing AIW features under linux?
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nov 11 22:36:38 <mtippett> Currently there is no focus.
nov 11 22:36:38 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:36:38 <[R3D]Ratchet> <BSD_Diffie> QUESTION: Will ATi offer plain tar.gz/tar.bz2 package of the fglrx driver, if no why not?
nov 11 22:36:59 <mtippett> No. Because there are fundamental issues with providing tarballs.
nov 11 22:37:20 <mtippett> We are however working on our installer that will simplify things for a lot of people.
nov 11 22:39:24 <mtippett> In general, the distribution's packages are preferred for distributions that not directly supported by ATI. (SuSE/Debian/FC/Gentoo all have packages)
nov 11 22:39:24 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:39:25 <[R3D]Ratchet> QUESTION: Reading dissusions on the x.org mailing lists it seems X is heading in an OpenGL based direction with an Xgl implementation. Does ATI have any plans to support this?
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nov 11 22:41:29 <mtippett> As said in the response to composite extension question. There are some fundamental technology issues that need to be solved before that becomes widely available. When Xgl becomes deployed and relevant, we will move in that direction.
nov 11 22:41:29 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:41:50 <[R3D]Ratchet> Any plans for BSD support?
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nov 11 22:41:51 <mtippett> Ratchet: is that a question from you or the channel :)
nov 11 22:41:51 <[R3D]Ratchet> me, sort of
nov 11 22:42:09 <[R3D]Ratchet> so give a good answer ;)
nov 11 22:42:09 <mtippett> At this stage: no.
nov 11 22:42:09 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:42:09 <[R3D]Ratchet> <untamed> QUESTION: Does ATI plan to increase the resources it allows to the Linux developement or are they satisfied with the pace they have established so far?
nov 11 22:42:10 <mtippett> As market demand increases, the team will increase.
nov 11 22:42:10 <mtippett> In the last 12 months, demand _HAS_ increased, and hence the resource count has increased.
nov 11 22:42:10 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:42:12 <[R3D]Ratchet> <rinthos> QUESTION: Close to a year ago, Ati made an announcement they would be relocating their driver development to Canada as a means of increasing the productivity of their drivers, can you explain to us what benefits we, the end users, would notice as a result of this move?
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nov 11 22:42:13 <mtippett> ATI _never_ made an official announcement of the move.
nov 11 22:42:15 <mtippett> But the driver development did move from Starnberg to Canada.
nov 11 22:42:38 <mtippett> The initial benefit is that I have a job
nov 11 22:42:42 * mtippett smirks..
nov 11 22:42:46 <mtippett> Anyway.
nov 11 22:42:50 <[R3D]Ratchet> hehe
nov 11 22:43:11 <[R3D]ben6> heh
nov 11 22:43:11 <[R3D]dementor> lol
nov 11 22:43:11 * [R3D]MrB ATI humour...
nov 11 22:44:38 <mtippett> The initial benefit is that the drivers are now released on a regular canter (bi-monthly).
nov 11 22:44:59 <mtippett> We use the same codebase at the time of release - CAT 4.11 windows drivers will have the same core code as the 8.08 Linux drivers
nov 11 22:46:43 <mtippett> We have direct access to HW and SW engineers, to resolve problems faster
nov 11 22:46:43 <mtippett> We have direct access to PR and Marketing.
nov 11 22:46:43 * mtippett peers at Jon and Terry
nov 11 22:48:27 <[R3D]ben6> PR and marketing? Eww :)
nov 11 22:48:27 <mtippett> As you can see, the next drivers have a few extra goodies, which is a direct result of the work.
nov 11 22:48:27 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:48:27 <[R3D]Ratchet> QUESTION: How concerned is ATI about the effect the quality of it's linux drivers has on it's good name? This considering a lot of linux enthousiasts serve as a guide for less-technical friends and family in their purchasing decisions?
nov 11 22:48:27 <[R3D]Ratchet> And in this light, did ATI ever consider temporarily boosting the develment resources to bring the drivers up to par on 3d performance?
nov 11 22:48:27 <mtippett> (bi monthly = every two months - I am watching #ATILinuxQ.
nov 11 22:48:48 <[R3D]MrB> And in this light, did ATI ever consider temporarily boosting the develment resources to bring the drivers up to par on 3d performance?
nov 11 22:48:48 <mtippett> Three questions or one?
nov 11 22:48:48 <[R3D]MrB> oops my bad
nov 11 22:48:48 <[R3D]Ratchet> lets try again
nov 11 22:48:48 <[R3D]Ratchet> QUESTION: How concerned is ATI about the effect the quality of it's linux drivers has on it's good name? This considering a lot of linux enthousiasts serve as a guide for less-technical friends and family in their purchasing decisions? And in this light, did ATI ever consider temporarily boosting the develment resources to bring the drivers up to par on 3d performance?
nov 11 22:50:53 <mtippett> That is a PR question - Terry - Jon?
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nov 11 22:50:54 <[R3D]MrB> well Jon comes up with PR spin Ratch do you want to ask another question?
nov 11 22:51:14 <ATI_Linux_Guys> You bet that we are both very concerned about anything that impacts the reputation of our software
nov 11 22:52:59 <ATI_Linux_Guys> as such we will now adopt a more open approach to keeping the user community update on our Linux developments, as we regularly update the press on our progress in the same manner we do with our windows drivers
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nov 11 22:52:59 <ATI_Linux_Guys> In fact you will see more coverage on ATI's linux developments in the coming weeks at some of your favorite tech web sites and we will continue this trend moving forward
nov 11 22:52:59 <ATI_Linux_Guys> stop
nov 11 22:53:20 <mtippett> My response on the burst development. We are more interested in sustainable development than one-shot wonders, hence we want to ramp the team, but do it carefully.
nov 11 22:53:20 <[R3D]Ratchet> <agd5f> QUESTION: is there a chance flgrx will switch to using the open (xorg/sfree86) DDX (2d Driver) and continue with the closed 3d driver? THere are already quite a few bugs that still affect the flgrx driver that have been fixed in the xorg ddx
nov 11 22:53:20 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:53:20 <[R3D]Ratchet> <agd5f> QUESTION: is there a chance flgrx will switch to using the open (xorg/sfree86) DDX (2d Driver) and continue with the closed 3d driver? THere are already quite a few bugs that still affect the flgrx driver taht have been fixed in the xorg ddx
nov 11 22:53:41 <mtippett> No. There are proprietary extensions that we can not fold into the Xorg release.
nov 11 22:53:41 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:55:04 <[R3D]Ratchet> <Svartalf> QUESTION: PPC Support? PPC is one of the primary platforms- especially with IBM pushing it. What support is planned for PowerPC on the binary drivers?
nov 11 22:55:25 <mtippett> None at this stage.
nov 11 22:55:25 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:55:46 <[R3D]Ratchet> <Dazog> Question: Will ATI setup a Bugzilla for all of us in the Open source community wanting to help crush bugs and give you huge amount of information on fixing the Linux Drivers to overtake the competition?
nov 11 22:55:46 * [R3D]Ratchet thinks that's one for Terry
nov 11 22:57:09 <mtippett> No. Our bug list will contain not only user problems, but also p
nov 11 22:57:09 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:57:29 <[R3D]Ratchet> <HWolf> QUESTION: Considering the fact the next release will be available for x86 aswell as x64, the amount of work to be done for each release will undoubtebly increase. will ATI employ additional resources for the x86x64 platform, or is this done with the same(sized) team?
nov 11 22:57:29 <mtippett> Erm..
nov 11 22:57:29 <mtippett> Let me retract.
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nov 11 22:57:50 <[R3D]Ratchet> sure
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nov 11 22:57:50 <mtippett> No. Our bug list will include issues other than end user problems. We will not seperate into two lists.
nov 11 22:57:50 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:57:50 <mtippett> :)
nov 11 22:57:50 <mtippett> Now the next question.
nov 11 22:58:11 <[R3D]Ratchet> <BSD_Diffie> QUESTION: As a Linux users who is in market for new video hardware, why should i choose ATi and purchase a video card from you over nVidia?
nov 11 22:58:11 <mtippett> Hold back Diffie's question...
nov 11 22:58:11 <mtippett> HWolf's question first...
nov 11 22:58:11 * mtippett puts on the record
nov 11 22:58:11 <mtippett> As true customer demand increases, resourcing will increase
nov 11 22:58:11 * mtippett turns off the record.
nov 11 22:58:11 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 22:58:32 <mtippett> Diffies question.
nov 11 22:58:32 * [R3D]Ratchet is loosing control ;)
nov 11 22:58:32 <[R3D]Ratchet> only a few questions left
nov 11 22:58:32 <[R3D]ben6> We want to thank ati for joining us today. We have time for a couple more questions :). Thanks Terry and Jon and Matthew
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nov 11 23:00:37 <ATI_Linux_Guys> Because as THE market leader in graphics, with award winning hardware across all product lines.
nov 11 23:00:37 <ATI_Linux_Guys> We have tackled our Windows driver problems of the past head on
nov 11 23:00:37 <ATI_Linux_Guys> and not only overcome those problems, we are now setting an unprecedented pace in Windows drivers
nov 11 23:01:01 <ATI_Linux_Guys> Innovations such as monthly releases, CCC, VPU recover, Smartgart, etc
nov 11 23:01:01 <[R3D]ben6> which reminds me. Isn't it about time to see 4.11 for Windows? :)
nov 11 23:01:01 <ATI_Linux_Guys> are all things we worked our a$$'S off to deliver
nov 11 23:02:01 <ATI_Linux_Guys> and we vow that the same passion will go into our Linux drivers
nov 11 23:02:01 <ATI_Linux_Guys> stop
nov 11 23:02:03 <[R3D]Ratchet> QUESTION: What are the issues in supporting ACPI sleep states? I understand that this is still under very heavy development but it seems that restoring video state is the main problem at the moment. Are the future drivers being overhauled to support ACPI sleep and suspend?
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nov 11 23:02:09 <mtippett> We are working on our Power Management infrastructure, but as was mentioned, it is still evolving under Linux. I can't say when it will be in a truly supportable state.
nov 11 23:02:09 <mtippett> stop
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nov 11 23:02:09 <ATI_Linux_Guys> Last question of the session
nov 11 23:02:09 <ATI_Linux_Guys> and then we have to sign off
nov 11 23:02:18 <ATI_Linux_Guys> oh and ben CAT 4.11 is scheduled sometime between now and a week from now
nov 11 23:02:18 <[R3D]Ratchet> ok, let me find a good one
nov 11 23:02:18 <[R3D]Ratchet> <WhO_KnOwS> QUESTION: When will running several X session be supported, if it will be supported at all?
nov 11 23:02:18 <[R3D]ben6> thanks terry :)
nov 11 23:02:28 * mtippett smiles at Who_KnOwS
nov 11 23:03:08 <mtippett> It will be supported, but I don't have any firm dates.
nov 11 23:03:08 <mtippett> stop
nov 11 23:03:19 <[R3D]Ratchet> ok then, that's it I guess.
nov 11 23:03:19 <[R3D]Ratchet> thanks for your time guys
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nov 11 23:03:19 <[R3D]Ratchet> :)
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nov 11 23:03:19 <[R3D]dementor> Thanks for another solid chat
nov 11 23:03:19 <[R3D]ben6> thanks for coming
nov 11 23:03:19 <[R3D]MrB> it's not done
nov 11 23:03:19 <[R3D]MrB> matt has a few end words to say
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nov 11 23:04:32 <ATI_Linux_Guys> I have a few words to say too
nov 11 23:04:32 <mtippett> If people really want to help us solve our problems. Work with each other to create a test case.
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nov 11 23:04:34 <mtippett> If you can make the test case return 0 for return 1 for fail, then we can track it down easier.
nov 11 23:04:34 <mtippett> Post it through rage3d Linux/Drivers for the moment... Watch this space for more information in the coming months.
nov 11 23:04:34 <mtippett> stop
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nov 11 23:05:36 <ATI_Linux_Guys> and from the Marketing/PR team, we want to thank Rage3D and all the mods, and you will be seeing more Linux related information in the coming weeks
nov 11 23:05:48 <ATI_Linux_Guys> I know for a fact Jon is lining up some interviews on some tech sites
nov 11 23:06:02 <ATI_Linux_Guys> so hopefully the information will get out to everyone
nov 11 23:06:10 <[R3D]Ratchet> and Rage3D would like to thank Terry, Jon, and especially Matt for doing this with us today.
nov 11 23:06:17 <ATI_Linux_Guys> and of course we all want to raise the quality of our Linux drivers to the next level
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nov 11 23:06:25 <ATI_Linux_Guys> Cheers everyone see you next time
nov 11 23:06:33 <mtippett> Thanks guys
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